Dr. Robert Gifford, host of Strike Up The Band! interviews Pam Smith Kelly about her father, Missouri composer Claude T. Smith.
Gifford:
This is Robert Gifford, your host for Strike Up the Band. We have opened our show with a march, which was one of the early compositions of Missouri's own Claude T. Smith. Mr. Smith was a prolific composer and is known worldwide for his original and innovative compositions for band. His untimely death in 1987 was a great loss to bands and band members around the world. It gives me great pleasure to introduce Pam Smith Kelly, who is Mr. Smith's daughter and current CEO of Claude T. Smith Publications. So, since we've just listened to “Citation March”—and I know that was one of Claude's earlier pieces—what, as his publisher, what can you tell me about that piece?
Smith Kelly:
Well, this is quite interesting, and this came forward when I interviewed Patrice Molina Sallenberger. Patrice, her dad was Charlie Molina, and they were in theory classes at the University of Kansas together. I'll just read exactly what she wrote. And this is from Patrice. “Dad was such a fan of Claude's writing. While they were in a composition class together at KU, Claude was working on a march. Dad leaned over to Claude and said, I bet you can't write a bass drum solo in this march. Well, of course, Claude could do it. So, in his now famous “Citation March,” there is a single bar in the middle of the piece with a very important bass drum solo. Claude gave credit to Charlie, or at least that's what dad always took credit for in that solo.” So, I just, I think that was a funny thing that you know, nobody else liked theory class, but dad really loved it, and Charlie was always joking around about it. And if you listen to “God of Our Fathers,” there's also a bass drum solo in it. And my dad always wanted as much bass drum as possible right there in that spot. And actually, a lot of people add timpani to it so that it's even louder. So, whenever I've conducted it, I always ask for more timpani. And the timpanist, his eyes get, their eyes get really round, and go, you gotta be kidding me. And I said, “No, Dad, love loud timpani.” And that's…and so that all came from that one story from theory class.
Gifford:
Wow. Yeah, he wanted the effect there. Well, of course, I too went to University of Kansas, and so did your dad. And I do remember…I have a personal march story, too. I was, we were studying band arranging or something with Austin Ledwith, who's a name that doesn't matter to anybody else. But for a final project, we took our march that we wrote into him, and he either played through it or looked through it. And when I finished, he said, “I'll pass you, if you'll promise one thing.” “Sure.” “Don't ever write another march.” So, I didn't. I understood he did that to everyone in the class, but I'm sure if he worked with Claude, that wouldn't have been the case. Well, I mentioned University of Kansas. Tell us just a little bit about you know, his career as a student and then as a composer and different accomplishments.
Smith Kelly:
Well, dad was in Central Methodist College in Fayette right after high school. And then he, he got his love of marches, I believe, when he was at Central Methodist, so that stuck with him forever. Then he was drafted into the army, and so he spent a couple of years at Fort Leavenworth. Right down the road from Fort Leavenworth was KU, so he decided to continue his education at the University of Kansas. And that really also opened up a whole lot of new possibilities and opportunities for him. He had wonderful teachers. And speaking of marches, let me back up just a second. He wrote another piece while he was in the Army, called World Freedom March. That was really his first march that he wrote, but we didn't publish it until later, when I opened the publishing company. So that was, you know, at Fort Leavenworth. He went to KU and the world just opened up to him. He had such amazing friends, amazing teachers. His closest friends at the time were Charlie Molina and Gary Foster, who has been like the number one woodwind doubler in LA for many, many years. And then his other dear friend was Johnny Woody, and that's a whole other story in itself.
Gifford:
That involves the Air Force and the horns and all kinds of things. Yeah, yeah.
Smith Kelly:
Well, do you want me talk to you about that, about John?
Gifford:
Sure.
Smith Kelly:
Okay, so dad was first horn, and by the way, he started on trumpet. But when he was at Central Methodist College, there was a man by the name of Ed Carson that told him he was not going to cut it as a trumpet player. So, Ed told him he needed to change to French horn. So, he did, and with Ed's help, then dad learned how to do all of that. And he loved horn, and that's why he wrote such incredible horn parts. So, when he went to the University of Kansas…so he was playing first horn proudly at KU. I have programs to back that. Yes, he was first horn. But in came a freshman one year, and his name was Johnny Woody, and he was from Leavenworth. And Johnny was really, really good, and knocked my dad out of first chair horn in orchestra and band. So, dad always said, “I'm going to get you back somehow. Don't worry, I'll do that.” So, when he wrote “Festival Variations,” he wrote these incredibly difficult horn parts in there, and dad was waiting. They knew they were going to be reading “Festival Variations” with the Air Force Band, and dad was waiting by the phone. And sure enough, during the middle of that rehearsal, Johnny went into Colonel Gabriel's office and said, “Get me Claude Smith on the phone right now.” And so, he called my dad, and my dad was expecting a little call, because Johnny basically said some not so nice words to my dad and hung up…because that meant Johnny had to practice, and he had to really practice that part a lot. And so, it was just a very interesting time that we had with that.
Gifford:
Well, that's wonderful. That's a wonderful human nature side of how music evolves, and the people involved, and so forth. So, Pam, one of the pieces you recommended was Claude's “Dance Prelude,” and so, maybe you could talk about that piece just a little bit.
Smith Kelly:
Well, that warms my heart to no end, because I was in college at the University of Central Missouri, um, which was then Central Missouri State University. And that's when you were there, Bob. You were there as my trombone teacher.
Gifford:
Oh, poor you.
Smith Kelly:
Oh, lucky me. Yay. And so anyway, Russ Coleman had asked dad to do a commission, and so dad called it “Dance Prelude.” And this piece is totally unlike almost any other piece that he wrote. I mean, it's like somebody else wrote it, but I know he did because there were unique things in in this piece. So, I was lucky enough to be in the band at CMSU at that time, and really had a…just a ball with dad on the podium. And Russ let dad conduct it, and we recorded it at that time. We recorded it for Jensen Publications, who was publishing the piece, and that later was Hal Leonard. But it was such a blast to be able to be in the band, and I had a bassoon solo with a piccolo solo. So that was really fun and scary at the same time, because, you know, we were recording, and that put all of our musicianship skills to a test because it was quite difficult. The other thing is that it was quite interesting in the middle because it was very dance like. And the main thing that almost all of my friends remember was the percussion part and the hand clapping part right after the solo. And our dear friend Rosa Adams at the time, she's now deceased, but everybody still remembers the solo of her saying, “This is hand claps. Do you really mean hand claps?” And then, when she got to the part where it was, dad wanted the “wah wah wah wah wah wah wah wah” sound and he wrote out “wah wah wah wah wah wah wah.” And she said, “Do you really mean wah wah wah wah wah?” He goes, “I wrote it. I meant it.” And the whole band was just erupting because Rosa was so fun to play with. And she really just asked the question out front and said, you know, “What is this? Is this really a hand clap?” Because it…dad had never put a hand clap part in it that, you know, went like this,
Gifford:
Right. Yes, I remember.
Smith Kelly:
It was just so, like, unusual. So that piece is very, very near and dear to my heart.
Gifford:
Yeah, we had so many innovations that a lot of us learned when we were teaching public school or playing in ensembles. And it made a great…it was of great importance to the development of bands in our country. And we are visiting with Pam Smith Kelly, who is CEO of Claude T. Smith Publications. So, you mentioned earlier Pam about being, and I can't imagine that—I think I would have come unglued—being in the band, when you're recording and your dad's conducting. And, of course, you're a bassoonist. I'm sure that's why he wrote that bassoon part. So, for you, what was it like…I mean, even in high school…with your father as the teacher, the band director, and the composer? How did you handle that?
Smith Kelly:
Well, you know, as a kid, he was just my dad. I didn't think anything of it. He made it really comfortable for me to be in the band. He made it very…I mean, I was just like everybody else, and so I did feel a little bit of pressure every once in a while. But basically, he always made everybody feel so at ease that I didn't really get that nervous. He would always joke that he wrote the bassoon solo, so it would, as he in his words, keep me off the streets. Now, I was, you know, a high school kid, and he just meant that, you know…he didn't want me to, you know…he wanted me to practice. And Bob, you know me well enough to know that I did not like to practice. But I had to practice those solos, or I knew I would mess up. Well, a lot of those bassoon solos and pieces I played for the first time. It was interesting growing up there…that he would change things all the time in his solos. We were the guinea pigs in band. We would sit and he would write a piece, and then the next day, he'd come in with the rubber cement and a little piece of manuscript paper, and upside down, put it right where we needed to change it or make it harder. If it was too easy, and we sight read it too well, then he would make it harder the next day. And sometimes our music had three or four layers of manuscript paper in one or two places because he knew he just needed to make it a little bit more difficult or interesting. Going with a lot of the pieces that have the word dance in it…Um, I'm going to back up just a second, because I really think this is an important kind of discovery that I've learned through my years. I didn't know this until he passed, and I was looking through my grandmother's scrapbooks, and he took dance as a five-year-old. And it's funny, because my son's a dancer in New York. But at that time, I thought, what did that…what did those dance classes do for him? And I think he made a lot of his music very dance-like. “Dance Prelude,” a lot of different pieces with the word dance. I think he used that with his 7/8 measures to have a little lift in the piece and to make it quite different. But I think the, you know, the dance was definitely, and I always wanted to dance in Chillicothe. And we didn't have any dance teachers that I knew of at the time. But anyway, going back to being his band student, it was it was an honor. It was fun. He always made it fun. He always made it just seems so natural. It didn't think like…he was just my dad. I didn't think anything about…I just thought this is really fun. So, when we were in…like in District band or band camp, I was there with him, and it was just a natural thing. The funniest thing I think I remember was when I was at UCM, CMSU band camp, and I was in orchestra, and I'd never seen tenor clef before, and I was terrified. I didn't know what tenor clef was, so I had somebody put the music underneath my dad's door because he was conducting at the same camp. And I said, “Please rewrite this,” you know, “just in bass clef please. I don't know what to do here.” And he said, “Well, this is going to be a good learning opportunity for you.” So, he wrote out part of it, but he didn't write out all of it, so I had to figure it out. So, it was just a real natural thing. And you know, with my dad, gosh, we could finish each other's sentences. We were just in sync. We knew what each other was thinking, and so we were very close. But he made it, you know, as a dad, he made it very natural for me to be along with him. It was such a privilege to be right beside him, watching him conduct, watching and listening to how he interpreted his own music. And hopefully, when I conduct, I carry some of those skills with me from what I witnessed as a kid. You know, I didn't realize it at the time that I would be a conductor later on and want to conduct his music and then now publish his music.
Gifford:
You know, a lot of our listeners wouldn't…aren't aware of this, but Claude’s position, as I remember at Chillicothe High School, Chillicothe, Missouri, was very unique, because he was given time, as I understand, to be able to compose during the day, as well as teaching instrumental music. And of course, he had a wonderful assistant with Bill Maupin in the woodwind area. But, and I've heard, I remember hearing a lot of composers say, “Well, how did he get that worked out?,” because everybody wished they could have that situation. Then there was one other thing you mentioned, because I've heard people all over the world talk about 7/8 Smith. So, they just changed Claude’s first name. Of course, 7/8 was such a revelation at his point. Now, it's no big deal, but do you remember when that sort of happened and what were reactions?
Smith Kelly:
Well, you know, it's so interesting, because I grew up with this. I was like five when his first piece was published. I could remember, you know, this was back in the day when you had one phone in your house. We had a very small house, so I could hear, oh my gosh, I could hear all these conversations, “Now, how do I conduct this? I don't get how to conduct this.” And so, he'd try to walk them through this on the phone without any kind of visual. He would try to describe it to people, or people would come to Chillicothe and have him even explain it and conduct it, you know, right there. So, a lot of people were mystified and would not conduct it. People did not people did not want to publish his music in the beginning. I have a whole file of all the publishers at the time that would not publish this piece because it had 7/8. And people would write, “Why are you writing in 7/8? I don't understand why you did this, because it's just tripping me up.” Bands were used to playing 4/4, 3/4, 2/4, and 6/8, but not 7/8 or 5/8, and so they were just mystified. And very well-known conductors would pass it up and say, “I'm not doing that piece because I don't know how to.”
Gifford:
Oh, my. So along comes Dave Brubeck and just changes the whole world for all of us.
Smith Kelly:
Exactly. But the band world didn't know that, you know?
Gifford:
No, I know.
Smith Kelly:
It's interesting, because Bernstein used it all the time. And I really think dad was highly influenced by Bernstein's music, because it's very dance-like, also. But boy, it was, it was…people would not publish it. And then Wingert-Jones took a chance on him and said, “Oh, well, what do we have to lose?” So, it was their first piece that they published, and it was premiered at Midwest. And then his career just took off because it was so unique. You know that…that's what people say. Oh, we do it all the time. Now, that's no big deal. I'm like, well, it was a big deal back in 1964 because nobody would take a chance on it, because conductors didn't want to mess it up.
Gifford:
That's right, they didn't understand the concept and so forth. Well, you know, Pam, I'm so impressed that you have…you did, a, I think a CD recording of your dad's music. It was called “A Daughter's Tribute.” Oh, I hope I got these two names correct. And the book that you've recently wrote, maybe it's not so recently now, but Harmony from Within. I think, what a great honor for a father to have his daughter do these things.
Smith Kelly:
You know, we were so close. I knew when he passed, I knew there was going to be a huge responsibility on my part to keep the music alive. I knew in my heart that was my purpose in life. I love teaching. I absolutely love teaching. I love conducting. But I know that I had to keep his music alive, because nobody else would, and music was going out of print right after he died. We were researching it, and it was like, what do you mean out of print? This is out of print? Are you kidding me? Well, it was before the days of computers when you can scan it and keep it. That's what started our publishing company, because we thought we can't…this music cannot go out of print. This music cannot not be there. We had people calling saying, “I need the scores to this for contest.” And I would say, “I don't have any permission to let the scores go. I There's nothing I can do.” And it became so overwhelming. A lady by the name of Mary Lou Jones was doing her dissertation, and we really started delving into all of these things that were out of print, things…what are we going to do? Things that had never been published. He was writing so much so fast. The two publishers could not take care of it. It was just too much. They couldn't, they couldn't do it all. So anyway, we just decided, I mean…we were in my mom's basement, and Mary Lou and I were going through all these pieces, and we came across a piece called “Overture: Our Creed Is Our Shield.” That was written for the Missouri ASTA in 1980. She was a strings teacher nationally known. And she said, “Oh, my gosh, this piece has to be published. This has to be published.” So, my husband used Music Printer Plus software and put “Overture: Our Creed Is Our Shield” in print. And then we luckily bought some pieces back from Hal Leonard that had gone out of print, that had been big commissions. So, we started the process of trying to buy back copyrights of things that were out of print, and that's how our publishing company came about. But it was because Mary Lou convinced my mom, who is very, very conservative and very worried about everything. And I said, “Mom, we have to get this…we have to keep this music alive. We have to do this. It is not a choice. It's, it's our duty to keep dad's music alive.”
Gifford:
Right. I'm so glad you did this. A lot of people, a lot of students around the world who play your dad's music, or musicians around the world, are so glad that you have done that.
Smith Kelly:
Oh, it's really my honor. I mean, I…it's an honor and a privilege, because it connects me with him. Every time I touch it, every time I work on it, every time I conduct it, I feel like he's with me. And I just, I just was so close to my dad that I really had to make that happen, and still have to make it happen. So, with the “A Daughter’s Tribute,” I was the assistant conductor of the Kansas City Wind Symphony at the time, and we had some extra time, and so I said, “Let's make a CD.” We had great recording capabilities at the Village Church in Prairie Village. And so, it's not a perfect recording, by any means, but I just wanted to do it because I picked the pieces that really spoke to me at that time and needed to be recorded, I think. We were really searching for a way to get things recorded. At that time, we were very limited about the recordings we had. Then luckily, Dennis Zeisler, with the Virginia Wind Symphony, recorded several CDs for us. We just needed the recordings being made, and I wanted to do it with my interpretation.
Gifford:
Good.
Smith Kelly:
So, that's why I did it. It's not perfect, but we did it in like, I think, a Saturday and a Sunday recording. We got what we got, and it's not perfect, but it sure means a lot to the people that recorded it. I have a booklet in that recording that is like a mini version of my big book, but it's very concise. I had a great friend, Kim Kruger, who did all the graphics and put it all together for us. So, that's how “A Daughter’s Tribute” worked out. Harmony from Within…that goes back to my good friend Rosa Adams-Bussard, again. We were talking my mom…who was getting older and also had been diagnosed with colon cancer, so I know I didn't have her much longer. And Rosa and I were talking, and she just sat me down at lunch and said, “You're going to write a book.” And I said, “I'm a what. I'm going to write a what?” And she said, “No, you are going to write all these stories down.” She was the master storyteller herself. And she said, “You're going to write all these stories, and you're going to ask people from all over the country that you can get to put quotes in this book about what they remember, as well as what you remember.” So, her brother was my editor, and he was a great English teacher and had done a lot of editing for a lot of people. So, I started writing, and I would take my computer at the time or clipboard or whatever I could in with my mom when she was in the hospital or getting treatments or whatever and would just start asking her questions. I just asked her as many questions as I could, and just started typing, typing, typing, typing, typing, and putting everything down. Then my mom said some interesting things that I did not know, and I will just tell this real quick story. I thought my dad graduated from KU in 1958 the year I was born. I found a diploma in a sealed container when I was working with all my mom's belongings from the University of Kansas. I opened it up, and it was a diploma, but the diploma said 1962 or 63 and I said this can't be right. What is this? Well, my mom finally confessed that dad had done all of his course work in 1958 and was hired by Cozad, Nebraska. And he was on a provisional teacher's license because he had not completed his English, I guess, proficiency, whatever. And I said, “What is this all about?” and my mom had always, like, corrected his…she was a secretary…She corrected his grammar, and she corrected everything. So, on his own, he, I guess, was not able to do it, because she was always, you know, proofreading everything. So, he actually had his diploma later than I had thought. So, those are some of the discoveries that I found when I was writing Harmony from Within. And Harmony from Within has like 250 quotes from other people about memories that they have, and I'm in the process of collecting more memories, because we're now going to change this into an e-book. I have a gentleman in Chicago that's reformatting it for me, and we're going to put more pictures in and more quotes in because there's just so many stories that I didn't know that people kept sending to me. So, it's not your typical biography. It has fun facts.
Gifford:
You're right, yeah. What a great contribution, really, to bands all over the world. So, thank you, at least from one reader and listener for what you did in all of that work.
Smith Kelly:
Well, it was, it was so much fun because my mom, you know, passed away that following spring. It was a tribute really to her, too, because I found out so many things, that without her constant love and devotion to my dad, he would have never been able to write what he wrote. She was his biggest cheerleader. The other person I attribute to dad's success was Bill Maupin in Chillicothe who would take a lot of the responsibility when dad was trying to write. He would take care of like typing the programs, collecting money, doing all that stuff. So, those two people, but I really have to give super amount of credit to my mom for her lifelong support of my dad, and also for her, just her generosity. She was the person behind him, you know.
Gifford:
Well, they made a great team. I mean, I noticed that from day one. I am pleased to have as a guest on this show the daughter of Missouri composer Claude T. Smith. So, Pam, now we're going to feature “Declaration Overture,” and I'm sure that's one of your favorites, too. I'm sure there's a story or stories behind that.
Smith Kelly:
Yes, “Declaration” was dedicated to my mom. It's the only piece he wrote that was dedicated to my mother. I didn't even know it until I sat down in the district band to play it. And it was to me, something so special that I can't even hardly describe it. I was playing in the band. It was done for the 1975 North Central Band Masters Association concert in Chillicothe, that we hosted almost every year. And so, I sit down to play my part. At that time, the original had the dedication on it, and I was just like…what? I was just really so touched. And then, of course, all the kids that knew me in the band were like, did you know this was written for your mother? Oh my gosh, you know? So, it was just such an incredible story, and then now “Declaration,” oh my gosh, has been…it's…Okay, I'll just go ahead and tell you this. It is the number two seller of all of dance music.
Gifford:
Oh, my goodness.
Smith Kelly:
Yeah. And I am kind of in shock about it, because at the time, I thought, okay, I would think, you know, well, I don't know, “Eternal Father” is a big dance. “Prelude” is a big dance. “Folatre” is big…um, you know, it's just amazing. But now, I look at the reports and it's, it's not only…it's available for flexible ensemble. It was…it's also a good sell or played a lot in contest for a full orchestra. And then it is also now…has been arranged for hand bell choir.
Gifford:
My gosh, yeah, lots of exposure.
Smith Kelly:
Isn't that amazing? So, it…okay. So, there's a little story also behind this. There's a gentleman named Andrew Yates who is here in Kansas City, director of the Overland Park Civic Band, and he was dad's copyist. That was back in the day when everything was done by hand, and my dad wrote the score, and then he would hand the score to somebody else. Now, this was done in high school. This was not that…Andy didn't do this on this piece, but he as the copyist would take dad’s score and write out parts. So, he knew my dad's music quite well, and he has a theory that the five-note motive (humming) is a code for “Maureen, I love you.” And so, that five-note motive goes through the whole song, and that is his take on what those five notes are kind of a code for my mom.
Gifford:
Wow, that's really, that's really interesting.
Smith Kelly:
But, I mean, that was not, that's his take on it. It's not my dad's take on it, because obviously, well….
Gifford:
It's good. It makes a great story, for one thing, and it's really a wonderful gesture. We are visiting with Pam Smith Kelly, the composer's daughter and a strong advocate for her dad's music. Well, Pam, just in a nutshell, all of the works that Claude did, what's an approximate total of everything, and I know he wrote for choirs and orchestras and bands.
Smith Kelly:
Yeah, he…well, he had…I've just been tallying it up. There's 125 band works that are band solely by themselves. There are a few extra things that I found in files and manuscripts that we are still going to publish. We published almost everything that I keep finding, believe it or not, since 1987. I'm still finding things that that need to be dealt with. And he was, he was writing so fast, so furiously conducting. It was hard for him to keep accurate records of everything. So, it's taken all this time to keep figuring all of this out. And plus, now we have other composers that are doing arrangements of his music, like taking “Incidental Suite” and now making that available for flexible ensemble by movement, and also string orchestra by movement. So, I mean, like, who would have figured that? But I mean they sound totally different, like the movements of “Incidental Suite” are totally different for string ensemble or string orchestra, and that was done by Jim Villani. So, he had 125 total band works. And now we have 27 flexible ensembles that have been arranged by Joseph Earp. And he's done an amazing job. He won the Claude Smith composition contest through Phi Beta Mu. in 2010.
Gifford:
Oh, sure.
Smith Kelly:
And I saw him again in 2019 at Midwest, and he said, “Oh, it's so great to see you.” They, you know, we just, we talked and talked, and he was, he was still composing and writing a lot for Robert W. Smith. So, in 2020 when the pandemic hit, he called and said, “Would you mind if I took “Declaration?”—because that was his favorite piece—"and wrote it for flex ensemble?” And I said, you know, I've been thinking about that. Wouldn't that be great if somebody could do some of those? Well, now there's 27, and by the end of next year, there'll be 30 of them available for flexible ensemble.
Gifford:
Oh, that's great. What you've done is you've made this music source accessible to so many people that wouldn't have been before. Plus, you've kept his music alive, which is a wonderful gesture, a wonderful…I mean, very, very difficult to do, I'm sure. This show has been a tribute to the music of Missouri composer Claude T. Smith, and has included the best possible spokesperson for his music, the composer's daughter, Pam. We are going to close the program with a work commissioned by my own students titled “Concert Suite for Low Brass.” And Pam probably has some stories too, but when I was also at Central Missouri, at CMSU, we used to call it, but University of Central Missouri, I had these low brass students, and we were looking for music. It's always hard to find music that fits trombones, euphoniums, and tubas. And we came up with a brilliant idea…probably I came up with a brilliant idea, and they're going to have to do all the work. Let's commission a composer to do this. And so, they decided we would do this. And so, we talked about who would be the composer that we want first, and everybody said Claude T. Smith. So, the kids used to wash cars, dig ditches, rake leaves and so forth to raise the money. And your dad, so graciously, actually gave us a really good deal financially. And it was such an honor for us to be able to premiere the piece, I think that was in 1977, with him conducting. Then he conducted it in ‘78 at Missouri Music Educators Conference, and then again in ‘79 in Chicago at the International Music Educator Conference. So, that piece has meant a lot, too. I don't know if there's anything else you'd like to say about the piece, maybe that I don't even know about.
Smith Kelly:
Oh, well, Bob, it's so fun that we're remembering this piece, because you have brought it up to light with so many of my friends that played in that ensemble. And I didn't realize at the time, I was right there in Warrensburg. I didn't realize at the time that you guys were doing all these car washes and bake sales and all these different things to raise money for this piece. And I was right there, and I didn't even realize it. And none of my friends were complaining about, well, we have to go do this to because we got to pay your dad or anything like that. So, I knew it was happening, but I didn't know much more about it than that. But I was so excited because I was right there at the premiere, and I was at MMEA when it was performed, and I was at Midwest when it was performed. I am just so proud that it's coming back, and we will begin…we are going to start the publication of that in 2027. It's currently available with Wingert-Jones through Excelsior Music, but we will take over the copyright in 2027. I'm so excited, because I want to put the picture of all of you, and I want to put the first the recital program in there, and then the quotes from you about the piece within the music, so everybody really understands the hard work and dedication that comes with commissioning a work to be done. It doesn't usually…people just don't have, you know…back in the day, I don't know how much it would have been, but they didn't have $500 or $1000 or $1500 a hand to a composer, and you had to really work to do this. So, Bob, I'm so grateful that you're bringing this up and that all this is going to happen in 2027.
Gifford:
Well, it was a great life experience. And I had forgotten that you were with us in Chicago. The thing that I remember from Chicago is that one of the members of the Chicago Symphony, whom we'd had on campus, a trombone player, Frank Crisafulli, came to us after the performance, and he said, “Oh, I brought some guys with me to hear your performance, and they were really impressed.” And he said it was a low brass section of the Berlin Philharmonic. And I'm sure glad he didn't tell us that before the performance, because you'd probably had to conduct. I wouldn't have been able to. Well, it's so much fun to share all these wonderful stories and experiences. I want to thank Pam Smith Kelly for taking time from her ridiculously busy schedule to reminisce with me about the wonderful music that was composed by her father Claude T. Smith. Thanks, again, for listening, and here's hoping that you will always have a smile on your face and a song in your heart.