MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:
Maria Corina Machado was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize last year for her work to promote democracy in her country, Venezuela. That work included leading the Venezuelan opposition to what Machado and many observers say was a decisive election victory in 2024. But the authoritarian regime of President Nicolás Maduro refused to concede, and Maduro remained in power until this past January when U.S. forces flew to Venezuela and captured him. Many Venezuelans expected Machado to eventually become their president once Maduro was ousted. That hasn't happened, even with Maduro sitting in a U.S. prison awaiting trial. And President Trump has publicly praised Maduro's successor, interim president, Delcy Rodríguez.
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PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: There's a spirit in Venezuela that they haven't had in many, many years. And the big companies are coming in now, and they're building these giant rigs 'cause there's a lot of oil in Venezuela, a lot of other things, too, and a lot of great people. And we have people in charge that are doing a fantastic job.
KELLY: Machado, the opposition leader, says there has been progress. Some political prisoners have been released, for example. But she says much more needs to be done, and she says she will not relent until Venezuela is, again, a democracy.
MARIA CORINA MACHADO: This is unstoppable. We won't give up. We will never give up. Venezuela will be free.
KELLY: We invited Maria Corina Machado to NPR's studios to talk about all of that and about her new book, "The Freedom Manifesto." Here's some of our conversation.
Let's start with your plans. You have said you would like to go back to Venezuela by the end of this year. What conditions need to be in place? What needs to happen for that to be possible?
MACHADO: Well, since the day I was able to escape my country, I said that I wanted to go back as soon as possible. But certainly, I had some...
KELLY: You left in December to go get your Nobel Peace Prize.
MACHADO: Exactly.
KELLY: And then everything changed in your country in January.
MACHADO: Exactly.
KELLY: OK.
MACHADO: Exactly. And - but at the same time, I knew I had some objectives to accomplish. One of them is precisely being banned from leaving Venezuela for over 12 years. Imagine - so many people I have never met in person. So I had a very long list of global leaders and Venezuelans living abroad that I wanted to meet, to talk, to organize, to align views and actions. And that's what I've been doing in the last month, and I'm planning to go back. Certainly, this is something that is being talked with and coordinated with the U.S. government for...
KELLY: End of this year - that is still your...
MACHADO: Oh...
KELLY: ...Time post?
MACHADO: ...I think it's going to be much, much, much sooner than that.
KELLY: Like when?
MACHADO: Like sooner (laughter).
KELLY: Days? Weeks?
MACHADO: No. I prefer not to say that yet because, of course, there are elements of logistic, of security that I have to address.
KELLY: So to loop back to my question, I understand you don't want to get into specifics of your security arrangements, but what conditions need to be in place for you to be able to set foot in Venezuela?
MACHADO: Well, I'm sure you're aware that I've been accused of everything from terrorism to murder, just because we were able to organize a society and to defeat the regime by a landslide. That's really what, you know, started this brutal wave of repression against the Venezuelan people, me included.
So basically, I had threats on my life, on my family, on my friends, on my colleagues. I had - most of them had to flee in order to save their lives. So what we expect is that regime understands that things have changed dramatically. And certainly, the role the U.S. government is playing right now represents an element of pressure for the regime not to act against many of the political actors and social actors that are starting to go back to Venezuela.
KELLY: So you need pressure from the U.S. and others on the current...
MACHADO: Certainly.
KELLY: ...The people currently ruling Venezuela to make sure that you will be safe to go home?
MACHADO: Absolutely.
KELLY: What's the first thing you'll do when you land?
MACHADO: Oh, wow (laughter).
KELLY: I mean, you were the opposition...
MACHADO: That's so hard.
KELLY: ...You're the opposition leader. Will you lead people into the streets in protest?
MACHADO: Actually...
KELLY: What will you do (ph)?
MACHADO: ...I was thinking. And the first thing is, you know, smelling (laughter) my country, touching our people, kissing the ground. No, we are the government-elect, actually, not the opposition. We won an election. But having done that, and in order to facilitate and contribute to the path that President Trump, Secretary Rubio have stated, we have accepted that we should go into a new election to relegitimize what we already did.
Imagine - with the toughest, extreme unjust conditions we had in 2024, in which a third of the population of Venezuela who had been forced to leave have - were not allowed to vote. And we did win, and we prove it with almost 70% of a vote. Imagine what's going to happen with free and fair elections.
KELLY: What about just practically speaking? Do you have a checklist of what needs to get done? I'm thinking about things as basic but as essential as voting machines, voting roles, electoral commission.
MACHADO: Absolutely, we do. And regarding the technical part of the election, this is very hard for me to say, but we've turned in experts in how elections can be, you know, perverted. But we also turn ourselves into experts on how to overcome those conditions. So now we know precisely what oughts (ph) to be done. And we want to turn Venezuela into a blueprint of elections that are trusted by everyone.
KELLY: Are you able to do any of that now with you still outside? Do you have people on the ground who are starting to put those things...
MACHADO: Yes.
KELLY: ...In motion?
MACHADO: Yes. And not only on the ground - Venezuelans around the world. Imagine, you know, having a third of your population, you know, in all these countries in every single continent. And people are organizing so that, as I said, from a technical perspective, we believe that we could have these right elections - you know, really transparent - done in 40 weeks. That's roughly nine months once you start, you know, to make the political decisions to go forward. That means that a lot, a lot of things have to be done, not only regarding the integrity of it.
KELLY: Nine months - so we're talking early 2027, you think is the timeline?
MACHADO: Well, if we start now, yes, or even the end of the year. But the political decision has to be made because there are other issues, not only the technical part of it.
KELLY: Just to say out loud - every time I interview you, I am struck by what a tricky position you are in, what a fine line you are walking. You need the support of the United States and of President Trump. You need it so badly you went to the White House and handed him your Nobel Peace Prize. But he has questioned your ability to lead, and he has openly supported your rivals.
MACHADO: Well, I will go back to something I mentioned to you. I mean, President Trump is the only head of state in the world that has risked the lives of some of his citizens for the freedom of Venezuela. And this is something I will always recognize, and our society is grateful for.
KELLY: I will close, if I may, with a more personal question because you are a political leader. You're also a mom. You have three kids - all adults now. In your book, "The Freedom Manifesto," you write that you feel guilty for what you have brought upon your family and that it is perhaps the most difficult burden you carry. Why?
MACHADO: Well, I have fought with guilt all my life. I don't know if that has happened to you.
KELLY: You and me both (laughter).
MACHADO: I think women in our generation because, you know, we want it all (laughter). We want to serve our nation. We want to be good neighbors. We want to develop our careers. We want to be good sisters and daughters and friends and moms and wives, and it's hard to do it all the same.
KELLY: Well, and I - most of us have not had the experience you had of sending our children to live outside our country so that they would be safe.
MACHADO: That was the hardest moment in my life. One day, I was standing in front of the National Assembly, and I started denouncing, precisely, corruption and drug trafficking. And I stopped talking. I was frozen. And I only thought, my daughter, my daughter, she's driving her car from the university to our home. So I sat down. I went home, and I told her, you're going. You're leaving. And she said, oh, no, Mom, I won't leave you alone. And I said, yes, you are. Yes, you are. You have to go.
And it was the hardest day in my life because I had to choose. And I decided that in order to be a good mother and protect my children but also to serve my country, I had to put my children in a safe place. And I'm very grateful because the U.S. was that place where they could study, and I wasn't able to be - on their graduation days. I was, through a screen, the only proud mom who wasn't present, and that's why I feel guilty.
KELLY: Yeah.
MACHADO: But at the same time, I've done it for them, for millions of children I think and love as mine as well and because I know that they will be able to go back to a proud nation that will be an example of peace, freedom, justice and opportunities for all in the future, and will never, ever again suffer under a tyranny.
KELLY: Maria Corina Machado, Venezuelan political leader, author of the new book, "The Freedom Manifesto," and mom - proud mom. Thank you very much.
MACHADO: Very proud. Thank you.
KELLY: We spoke with Maria Corina Machado as part of NPR's video podcast Newsmakers. You can watch our full conversation on the NPR app and NPR's YouTube channel.
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