TERRY GROSS, HOST:
This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross. You may know my guest, comic Josh Johnson, from his comedy specials, from his popular YouTube channel in which he posts complete sets of his frequent performances at the Comedy Cellar and other clubs and gets millions of views, and from his work on "The Daily Show." He's now one of the rotating anchors of the show after having been a writer and field correspondent. For several years, he toured with Trevor Noah. Johnson also has been a writer for "The Tonight Show With Jimmy Fallon." He's really funny, whether it's political humor, cultural issues like his bit, "Drake Vs Kendrick Explained For White People," or personal stories like why he's an easy target for muggers, how he's been known to faint and why he sometimes feels like an alien and thinks he's on the spectrum.
His new comedy special is called "Symphony." He's added music to this special. Let's start with a clip from The Daily Show, from the most recent time he anchored in April. It's about Trump's ballroom. In addition to Johnson, this includes news clips of Senator Lindsey Graham and Katie Zacharia, who's a former Department of Homeland Security spokesperson.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE DAILY SHOW")
JOSH JOHNSON: What could possibly make this thing cost so much? Like, be specific.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
LINDSEY GRAHAM: Underneath, there will be a lot of military stuff.
JOHNSON: Military stuff?
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: What military stuff? Name 10 military stuffs. I'll wait.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: Lindsey Graham sounds like me in fifth grade trying to convince my mom to get me an Xbox. Like, you know, they make educational games, too.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: Here's what I don't get. The president travels with tons of security everywhere he goes. So what problem are we trying to solve exactly?
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
GRAHAM: The ballroom itself will avoid the dilemma of having to leave the White House grounds. He literally could've left his bedroom, walked out the back of the White House and been at the ballroom.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: OK. Wait. The president needs to walk out of his bedroom into the ballroom.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: This feels like it's Lindsey's dream.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: I can see Lindsey, like, I must rise from my silk sheets...
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: ...And directly into the cotillion.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: Oh, it's a masked cotillion, where I can be my truest self.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: This is not what a president is supposed to be focused on unless that president is 7 years old. You know, they're writing a list like, I'm going to have a slide that goes right from my bed to the pool.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: And I want a suit made out of candy, so whenever I get hungry, I can just eat my shirt.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: But still, as good as the White House is, Trump is going to have to leave sometimes.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
KATIE ZACHARIA: It really does put President Trump at risk to go around Washington, D.C., like this. The president should not have to leave the White House to go to the Kennedy Center, to go to the Hilton and venture out. People should come to him.
JOHNSON: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait, wait. The president shouldn't have to leave his house? You don't want the leader of the free world to visit anything?
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: Hold on. Is the president depressed?
(LAUGHTER)
GROSS: Josh Johnson, welcome to FRESH AIR. I think you're really funny. How much of the material do you get to write yourself when you're anchoring?
JOHNSON: It varies pretty much day to day. There are some times you come in with the full sort of arc of the idea that you have for the show. But every day that I'm working there, I work with the writers and the EPs to shape everything that you end up seeing and hearing. So I don't really, if I'm being honest, especially for my time as a writer, writing there is so communal that I don't really think of it as, like, how much of the pie is, like, mine because I think that it's all of ours, in a way.
Like, maybe that sounds like too diplomatic of an answer, but it genuinely is true. It's like, when I was just writing, before I was behind the desk or anything like that, you might pitch a joke that someone else has an idea for that sparks another idea. So by the time people see it that night, it's like a mishmash of three people's jokes all to become the funniest thing possible.
GROSS: Tell me one thing that's different writing for Jimmy Fallon versus writing opening monologues for Trevor Noah or - I don't know if you were still writing when Jon Stewart came back to the show.
JOHNSON: Yes, I was for a bit. And then I got promoted. So I would say the biggest difference is, when I was at Fallon, I was on the monologue team. And, you know, you're distilling pieces of the news and everything. But you're trying to get them across in this very specific way, you know, these very sort of short, punchy jokes. And I think that when it comes to "Daily Show" and writing there, I was really able to stretch out the storytelling and stretch out the idea and how you get the idea across and making the assessment of what happened a bit more universal, or coming up with an analogy that instantly makes this thing that's happening on the other side of the world easy to understand.
And so I think that there was a bit more writing involved that actually got on the show when it comes to "Daily Show" versus, like, even if you get - like, if you get five jokes on the monologue, that's a huge deal. That's like you're killing it. That means that out of this short amount of time that's the top of the show, they liked a lot of your stuff. And I think that when it comes to "Daily Show" and writing there, it's like, how well are you working in community with the writers around you? And how receptive are you both to ideas and also to applying what it is you want to say about a thing quickly?
GROSS: You do a lot of comedy that's self-deprecating, about how you're not muscular, you're not an alpha male. I just started having protein powder. So I thought this part was hilarious that you bought a larger size of protein powder because you wanted to get more muscular, but it was so heavy, you needed to work out just to carry it home. So I want to play one of your stories from your first album, and it's about why you're a target for getting mugged. So let's listen.
JOHNSON: OK (laughter).
(SOUNDBITE OF COMEDY SPECIAL, "I LIKE YOU")
JOHNSON: If you're looking up at me and you're like, this guy's been mugged, you'd be right. I have.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: I have been mugged. I'm very muggable.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: I don't know what it is about me, but they just come right at me, OK?
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: And I don't know if other dudes in the room do this. But when you see a dude coming towards you, looks threatening, do you think in your head, I go to take him?
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: Because the way I can fight my head is astounding.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: The way I fight in real life, not at all.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: I am a flailer, so...
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: You need to stand back because you will get slapped, probably by accident. I don't know what I'm doing.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: So this dude was coming towards me. He looked threatening. In my head I was like, whew, looks like we're going to have to Jason Bourne this.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: I'm going to jump up in the air, do three flips. I don't want to do three, but we need to do what needs to be done, you know?
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: Bring my knee down on his face, crack his skull, punch him in the face until he's incapacitated. That was my plan.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: His plan was I'm going to punch him in the face and take his wallet.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: We met up. He had a much better plan than I did. His plan...
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: His plan was on fire - execution, everything.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: Some of you guys don't know about me. If you punch me hard enough in the face, I pee.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: So we met up, he punched me in the face, I hit the ground, start peeing right on cue. I don't disappoint, OK?
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: But now he's trying to fit his huge, muscular hand into my pocket to take my wallet, but his hand gets stuck around my wallet. It's very full with coupons. I have no money.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: But now his hand is stuck, but he can see the pee stain getting bigger on my pants. So now he's like, oh, wha, wha, wha, wha, wha, wha, wha, wha, wha, wha. He's lifting me off the ground at this point. I weigh 125. Wha, wha, wha, wha, wha, wha, wha - forget it. He leaves.
(CHEERING)
JOHNSON: So who needs karate, am I right? Whoa.
GROSS: I guess the potent lesson from that is, like, pee is a dangerous weapon (laughter).
JOHNSON: Yes, and everyone hates pee.
GROSS: So how close is that to what actually happened?
JOHNSON: I think the order of events is correct. Like, the way that it really happened - which I don't always like talking about because it's a lot like telling someone how a magic trick is done 'cause then, like, you know, there's, like, a little less juice in it when you hear it the next time - but, like, the way that things really went is that it was all much faster than that. It was all much like, oh, my God, and then it was just over.
GROSS: It always seems to me it really takes a gift to tell a story like that and have people laugh and enjoy themselves and see themselves in what you're saying, as opposed to, like, oh, that's so sad. He's so weak, and he's such an easy target. Was it hard at first to figure out how to make people laugh, as opposed to see you as a - you know, a pathetic figure because you're not strong?
JOHNSON: Yeah, I mean, I think most people have an insecurity about themselves, whatever it is. Some people aren't particularly strong, or some people aren't confident in their looks, or some - but, like, one of the most connected attributes to the human condition, to me, is just, like, being flawed. I think that we gravitate towards people who have triumphant moments. It's one of the reasons we're so engaged with sports. But I also think that if we're talking, like, person to person, we really connect with people on their faults and their weaknesses. And I think if any fine line exists, it's that I was blessed with being able - from an early start into comedy, being likable on stage. And so, obviously, when people like you, they don't like when bad things happen to you. But I think the way that you overcome that is one, you're telling the story. So, no matter what you tell people, you clearly lived. Like, I think that that's the...
GROSS: That's right. That's right, yeah.
JOHNSON: That's the main thing, isn't it?
GROSS: Yeah.
JOHNSON: I'm telling you the story now, removed by years. So one, I'm over it, and then two, I must have made it out, or else this would be a hologram.
GROSS: So is comedy ever a useful weapon to diffuse a situation?
JOHNSON: Oh, sure. I mean, that's happened countless times. I can't even think of, like, a good example. I mean, that was basically most of high school.
GROSS: Yeah (laughter).
JOHNSON: Yeah (laughter).
GROSS: Where was your high school? Like, what was your high school like?
JOHNSON: My high school was a Catholic school in Alexandria, Louisiana. And yeah, I had what I'd say were a decent amount of friends, but I think I had what is - you could almost call a maybe normal amount of, like, being picked on. Like, I look back at it with less - I don't necessarily look at - look back at it with a bunch of, like, traumatic feelings, but I definitely look back at, like, oh, yeah, that wasn't good. That was pretty bad.
(LAUGHING)
GROSS: We need to take a short break here, so let me reintroduce you. If you're just joining us, my guest is Josh Johnson, and he's a really funny comic who has a new comedy special that's now streaming on HBO Max. It's called "Symphony." We'll be right back. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. Let's get back to my interview with comic Josh Johnson. He's one of the rotating anchors on "The Daily Show." His new comedy special "Symphony" is streaming on HBO Max.
I want to play another bit that you do. And this is also from your first comedy album, "I Like You," which was on Comedy Central Records. And I'm playing things from this album 'cause I feel like this album is your this-is-who-I-am album, 'cause you talk a lot about yourself. You present this, like, projection for the public of your self-image. And in this, you talk about feeling like an alien.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
JOHNSON: I don't know what my problem is. I really don't. I'll share a secret with you guys, 'cause we're family.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: I don't even feel Black some days.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: I feel like a alien that snatched a Black body and didn't do any research at all. Didn't do a thing. Didn't read a book. Didn't watch a movie. Doesn't know what "Boyz N The Hood" is, but loves trains, like...
(LAUGHTER)
GROSS: That is really funny. Later in the bit, you talk about how you think you're on the spectrum, the autism spectrum. What makes you think that?
JOHNSON: I mean, I - you know, I've thought that ever since I was a kid because of how - I guess because of how odd everyone always said that I was, or my general - like I said before - like, fixations and tendencies. I think that I've had a lot of time where - and some of this is actually probably just indicative of being alone for so much time. You know, not only am I an only child, but there were plenty of times where I didn't have, like, someone to play with. And so I was just, like, alone in my room. And, you know, you get - once you're allowed to get into your own head in any degree for a number of years, you probably come out of that thing with a very singular set of - ideas might not be the right word, but, like, as soon as you sort of surface again socially, you probably seem a bit odd.
GROSS: Are you more comfortable on stage talking to people, but not having to have a conversation with them?
JOHNSON: I think I - that's a good example. It's like, I think that in doing a show and expressing my ideas and performing for people, I can be incredibly comfortable. But then I think one on one or, yeah, in, like, a group setting, it's like - it's not necessarily that I shrink. I have really good conversations with people that I really cherish, and sometimes they're unexpected. Sometimes they are strangers. But I think that it's where I feel the most, like, disjointed sometimes, if that makes sense.
GROSS: And I also want to get to another part of the bit that we just heard, which is that sometimes you feel like an alien who snatched a Black body but didn't do the research. What makes you feel that way?
JOHNSON: You know, I think as far as being out of place and a feeling, you know, there's a lot of that that I felt growing up. And some of it was because of my interests and how maybe singular they felt at the time. And then it takes a while - you know, I didn't grow up with this version of the internet. So I'm from an era where it took longer to find your people. And so already, being a Black nerd makes you feel like an alien, if you're a '90s baby. Like, already - that is communally now not weird at all, but for the time I grew up in, such a singular experience.
I was also this Black kid in a lot of white spaces a decent amount of time. And so I was already around people who not necessarily - I won't say couldn't relate to me 'cause it's not as if they weren't trying to. But just, you know, from our basic experiences living in the South and being a Black kid around a lot of white kids in different parts of my day, I think that that's another way to feel sort of, like, odd man out a bit. Because now I don't fulfill the expectations of some of the people around me when I'm in my neighborhood, and then I definitely don't fulfill the expectations of people who only have a frame of reference for a Black person that is, like, through media or something.
And so, yeah, it felt like I was, for a number of years, just, like, such an odd one out. And I think that I look back on that time as, like, a bit of a blessing because when you're already the odd one out, then it's like, what are you going to do? You're not going to get odder, if that makes sense.
GROSS: (Laughter).
JOHNSON: So then you can literally just engage in the things that you care about. You can be open about your interests and everything because you're already, quote-unquote, "weird" just by being yourself.
GROSS: So...
JOHNSON: And so...
GROSS: Yeah.
JOHNSON: ...I think that that helped.
GROSS: What were you nerding out on?
JOHNSON: It seems so commonplace now, but truly, it's, like, anime, puzzles. I would get fixated on certain sections of a story. Like, I would read a piece of a story over and over again. Never mind, like, finishing the story. Like, there'd be a section - there'd be a chapter of a book that I thought was just, like, amazing. And I would just read that over and over again.
I also had - I had, like, a real obsession with Legos longer than is probably average. So I definitely was, like, building and rebuilding and rebuilding and rebuilding, over and over again with some...
GROSS: What were you building?
JOHNSON: I mean, I'd just build different structures, or I would - I'd try to figure out how to build - I'd try to draw a thing and then figure out how to build it with the Legos. And that is not a bad thing. That's not necessarily a weird thing. But it is a thing that you start to get picked on about around 15. Like, that is when, if you've brought the Legos to school and you are trying to finish the dragon head in front of people, you're going to get some notes from your peers.
GROSS: In the end of the bit that we most recently heard, you mention trains - that you haven't seen "Boyz N The Hood," but you're into trains. Like, where do trains come in?
JOHNSON: I think, I mean, it could've been trains. It could've been sharks. It could've been any number of things. But I picked trains at the time because in my mind, it flowed the best with the rest of what I was saying. So sometimes also when - whether it's you're writing or performing, it's like you try to pick the funniest word that also completes the idea 'cause I have a different joke that is of a similar sort of line of thinking, and I say sharks in that one. So I think trains literally was because it was going to be the funniest word at the end of the sentence.
GROSS: Well, we need to take another break here. So let me reintroduce you. If you're just joining us, my guest is Josh Johnson. He's one of the rotating anchors on "The Daily Show," and he has a new special streaming on HBO Max called "Symphony." We'll be right back. I'm Terry Gross, and this is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "NIGHT TRAIN")
JAMES BROWN: All aboard for night train.
(Singing) Miami, Florida. Atlanta, Georgia. Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey.
(SOUNDBITE OF RAMSEY LEWIS TRIO'S "THE 'IN' CROWD")
GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross. Let's get back to my interview with comic Josh Johnson. He's known for his YouTube comedy channel on which he posts complete sets of his frequent appearances at the Comedy Cellar and other clubs. And he gets millions of views. He's also served as a writer and field correspondent on "The Daily Show" and is now one of the anchors. He's done several comedy specials. His new one is called "Symphony," and it's streaming on HBO Max.
So you grew up in Alexandria, Louisiana. Would you describe your neighborhood?
JOHNSON: Yeah. So we moved a few times within Alexandria. And I look back on some of the places that we lived as, you know, obviously, like, not the best neighborhood, especially from the stories, if you watch my stuff or have been following me and everything. But there was a time where - when my parents were still together. And we were, I believe, on, like, Albert Street.
And that was the nicest house I lived in with my parents and everything. And when they got divorced, you know, my mom and I lived with my grandmother. And then when we moved out of my grandma's house, the places were, you know, like, modest and everything. But the actual neighborhoods had their troubles.
GROSS: You want to elaborate on the troubles?
JOHNSON: You know, there'd be, like, shootings or police calls. There'd be a decent amount of violence in the area. And, you know, I was very blessed that a lot of it passed me by, in a way. Like, I didn't have to experience a deep closeness with all those things, even though I was in close proximity. And so, yeah, there's definitely a lot of pain in the things that happened in the neighborhoods that I lived in because I see so many of them as - I won't say inevitable. But, like, they are definitely, like, products of situations that people found themselves in that are much bigger than, like, one individual squabble with another person, you know?
I think that from an early age, I had a bit of an understanding of what it means to be stripped of resources and what people will do when they don't feel like they have real options. It's very easy to say to a person who might be living on the street, oh, go get a job. And it's like, OK, sure, sure. Logically, that is the next step. But the person saying that, are you going to give them a job?
Are you going to employ them and help them get out of this situation? And even with a job, you know, I think it's lost on a lot of people how many working people are unhoused, you know, how many working people live in their car, maybe, or are just, like, scraping to get by. And so that was a decent amount of some of the things that I saw growing up, especially in that specific couple of areas.
GROSS: So you went to Catholic school. Was that from grade school through high school?
JOHNSON: No. I went to Catholic school from, like, junior high to - through high school.
GROSS: So what was grade school like? Was that a neighborhood school?
JOHNSON: No, no. So grade school was actually my mom, my aunt, my grandma and my grandfather, yeah, like, all pooled their money together and sent me to, like, a Montessori school.
GROSS: So that's like an alternative school.
JOHNSON: Kind of. Yeah, yeah. I'm not the best at describing the, like, Montessori method. It's just we didn't have specific grades in the way that you would at your regular public school. What we had were sort of, like, evaluations on where we were every year at each given discipline. And so it led to what I, at least, think for me ended up being a deeper understanding of my strengths and weaknesses in school, because especially once I got to junior high and high school, when I just had regular grades, sometimes I would get a low grade on something that I really felt like I understood.
But what I was actually failing at was, like, a piece of the lesson. Like, for example, with algebra, it's like I was better at word problems than I was at actual equations, you know? And so I think that something like a Montessori method would have maybe pointed that out a bit more specifically than just a general, like, you get a C overall because you don't grasp the whole of the thing.
GROSS: In my experience, having interviewed a lot of comics, a lot of comics - and I'll include you in this - are like, they're so smart and so perceptive. And, like, you know the right word to use to get a specific coloration of an emotion or an experience. And it's like, for me, like, you're a comedic short storyteller, you know? Like, you know how to build a story, so you're a very good writer.
But comics don't necessarily do well in school, and they don't necessarily care about school. Did you care? Did you care about your grades? Did you care about, you know, wanting to learn? Because your parents were both teachers. Your mother was a special ed teacher, at least for a while. Your father was a teacher. I'm not sure what he taught.
JOHNSON: Yeah, so my care was in the fact that I had a general understanding from a really young age that everyone was, like, putting everything into me, if that makes sense.
GROSS: Oh, yeah, yeah.
JOHNSON: And so I wanted to do well because of that. You know, I think that when it came time for me to get grades back, I cared about getting a good grade for the reasons that we've just been talking about. But I think that as far as real interests go, I'd usually only have two or three classes a year that I look back on as being, like, heavily invested in.
GROSS: What were they?
JOHNSON: So English was one of them.
GROSS: Makes sense. Yeah, yeah.
JOHNSON: You know, I really, really loved the stories. I remember one of my teachers was going through Chaucer with us. And I just remember being so blown away that this entire world got created. Like, that was the idea of - to me, that was like the original Marvel Comics, almost, because it's all this world-building in all of these different tales. And, you know, like, my grandma would read to me a lot, so I was familiar with, like, Aesop fables and everything like that. But there was something about "The Canterbury Tales" that, yeah, I was just taken with. And Shakespeare as well.
So English was, always one of them. And then it would flip between other things. So it would be English and psychology. Like, I took a psychology class in high school, English and philosophy. I got to take a philosophy class. And so it was always English plus something.
GROSS: Your mother was a special ed teacher and then after neurosurgery became a librarian. What happened that required the neurosurgery?
JOHNSON: So yes, she got really sick, and the neurosurgery basically was to save her life, you know? She was in a situation where even with the surgery, they said that she wouldn't walk again, that she'd have trouble speaking, that, like, her cognitive ability would be declined and everything. And truly, like, the work of the doctors and - genuine miracle. She was completely fine. Like, she was walking soon after. You know, she was talking like there wasn't any issue prior, and she wasn't having the headaches that she was having before.
You know, I was really young when it happened, and I was - yeah, I was so genuinely horrified at the idea of losing her. And I don't even really, if I'm being honest, think about it as often. I think about how grateful I am that it all turned out so well. And I'm very grateful for her every time, you know, she comes to a show or I get to - you know, get to see her. I'm always grateful.
But yeah. Yeah, once she became a librarian, it was just something that would be less of a strain on her. Anyone who's taught special ed knows the workload involved and just the toll it takes on even a teaching career, to a degree. You know, there's, like, a saying that teaching one year of special ed is almost like teaching five years, you know? And she needed something that was a different pace. And so she got this job at the library, and it really benefited both of us because she would pick me up from school, and then I would just hang out at the library until it was time to go home.
GROSS: Oh, that's nice.
JOHNSON: So...
GROSS: So you're surrounded by books you could read.
JOHNSON: Easily, easily. So it was fantastic. And it was some of my first - outside of school, it was some of my first, like, engagement with the internet because we couldn't afford a computer. So I had to do all my schoolwork on the computer at the library. And then if I finished early, then I just had that extra time to myself on the computer in the library. And so I was surrounded by books. I was around computers. I was, like, in heaven.
GROSS: Your grandmother had Alzheimer's, and you talk about this in one of your performances - that she said to you, I know I'm losing my memory; I will never forget who you are. 'Cause you always worried you'd go there and she'd not know who you are. You can't control your brain like that, and you can't control it especially if you have any form of Alzheimer's or other related - you know, other form of dementia. Did she always remember you?
JOHNSON: I mean, she really did. Until the end there, you know, I think that one thing that she did do was use every moment of being completely lucid to communicate her feelings as accurately as possible. And I think that that's why it always felt like that, even though, like - you know, like you said, sometimes maybe that genuinely wasn't the case. But I really felt like I was missing this time with her by being in college or even after college, moving to Chicago and seeing her less. It's like - it's a known thing that when you are around less, you're harder to remember when someone has dementia.
And so I always worried about that day that I'd come back and she wouldn't really know who I was. But there was such a genuine excitement. She would rush to hug me. She'd rush to talk to me and catch up. And it was really like she wasn't experiencing or living with dementia whenever I was with her. And I know that that probably just means I got incredibly lucky over those last few years of being with her on some of her best days. But I also think that there's a - there's an unspoken thing around what love can do. And I think that love does defy sometimes the - what is medically sound, you know? I find that sometimes you hear these stories of people who - whether it's being really sick and holding on just long enough for someone to make it back or - you know. I know plenty of things don't work out this way, but I don't know what else to chalk it up to...
GROSS: Yeah.
JOHNSON: ...Other than that.
GROSS: Well, let me reintroduce you again. We have to take a break here. If you're just joining us, my guest is comic Josh Johnson. He has a new comedy special that's streaming on HBO Max. It's called "Symphony." We'll be right back. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF AMY WINEHOUSE SONG, "YOU KNOW I'M NO GOOD")
GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. Let's get back to my interview with comic Josh Johnson. He's one of the rotating anchors on "The Daily Show," and he has a new comedy special called "Symphony." It's streaming on HBO Max.
When you were growing up, did you listen to a lot of comedy or watch a lot of comedy?
JOHNSON: Yes, as much as I could. Like, everything. Everything.
GROSS: What made you think you should try it yourself?
JOHNSON: I think just a love for it. I just really enjoyed it, and I figured, why not? Like, I had an obsession with writing, and I had an obsession with comedy, so why not try to put those two things together and just see? And then even when I was starting out and it wasn't going according to plan - like, I wasn't exactly killing every time I was going up - I still enjoyed the lesson that came out of not doing well that I wanted to get up again.
GROSS: What was your first time at the mic like? Do you remember any of the stories or jokes that you told?
JOHNSON: So my first open mic in Chicago was, like, the night that I got there, like, the night that I got there, like, the night that I landed. And I don't remember...
GROSS: That's so disorienting.
JOHNSON: Yeah, but it - but I don't know. It's like, why waste time?
GROSS: (Laughter).
JOHNSON: You know? It's like - it's - you have the chance right now. I tried to do the same thing when I moved to New York. I got to New York and immediately just went out and started going to mics and went to a show. And yeah, I think you just have to dive in.
I don't remember my first sets, really, that well. But I definitely remember the feeling of being able to do, like, three that night. Like, Chicago had and has so many open mics and so much comedy that I was able to do three open mics the first night because I could just take the bus, go the next place, take the bus, go to the next place and everything. And I remember the first one went really well, and then the second one went even better. And then the third one was horrible. Like, I thought I was on a real streak, and then the third one was just terrible.
GROSS: Was it the - do you think it was the audience's fault? Like, they didn't get you?
JOHNSON: No, it was me.
GROSS: It was you?
JOHNSON: It was - no, it was definitely me. And I think - I will say this. I sort of walked into the third one with the confidence that I literally just landed in Chicago, and the first two went so well that, like, obviously, the third one has to go even better. And then when I was getting nothing off of a couple of the same jokes I had done, I was, like, so flustered by it that it was me.
GROSS: What did your parents and your grandmother think, after having invested so much of their, you know, time and money and emotional thinking into schooling you, into sending you to the Montessori school? I don't know if they helped you pay for college, but, you know, you went to college. And now you're pursuing this really risky profession. How many people really make it as a comic? Were they wringing their hands and thinking, oh, all of that for nothing, he's throwing his life away?
JOHNSON: No, they were weirdly supportive. But I will also say that I did spend my time getting real jobs, doing - never asking them to send me money or anything like that, never - if anything, I tried to send money back when I could, you know? And I think that I kept it under wraps enough that first, maybe - what? - six, seven months or something like that, that they didn't even know. And so I don't even really think that they knew how much I was pursuing comedy until I got passed at my first few clubs and started getting paid. And by then, it was like, oh, OK. If this is going to be your little hobby, at least you're making a little money off of it. And as it progressed and as there was more success, I think it became harder to be like, OK, well, this was a bad idea. You know what I mean?
And so, you know, even my dad - like, that's one of my biggest - I don't even know how to describe it as anything but a regret because it wasn't fully in my control, but I suppose some of it was. I - my dad never got to see me go up. And he was - as soon - from the time I told him I was doing comedy, he was so excited, and he wanted me to succeed so much. And I think that, for the most part, my family was mainly interested in giving me my best shot at being successful and able to take care of myself.
GROSS: In college, you were studying theater with a focus on lighting design, which is very specialized. Did you already think you wanted to do comedy and this was the closest you were going to get in college?
JOHNSON: That's a really good question. I think that it was the closest thing outside of actually performing - which I think would've been terrible for me at the time - that I could do that kept me close to live performance. You know, I didn't really have the ear for sound design and sound engineering. And I found that lighting really gave me that outlet where I could both be a part of the show and watch the show and help the show, but I didn't have to be on stage performing because I think that as far as the type of acting that we were learning in college, I don't think it's something that I would have been adept at.
And so I got to watch my friends, who are very talented, get better and better at their chosen craft. And then, for me, I got to watch how the whole production comes together and gain appreciation for it while doing something that's sort of on the side. And so yes to your question initially, but then when I moved to Chicago, you know, I told everyone it was to pursue lighting design, but it was really to pursue comedy.
GROSS: So being a theater major and working in theaters, doing lighting design, that must've helped you feel comfortable in comedy clubs. You were used to being in theaters, and this was even - you know, comedy cellar's going to be even smaller than a theater and more informal as well.
JOHNSON: Yeah. I mean, it was so much less about the number and more about getting my ideas across, which I felt like I'd been writing for so long, and then it just became about taking the leaps of saying what it is you want to say.
GROSS: Josh Johnson, it's been a pleasure to talk with you. Thank you so much.
JOHNSON: Thank you. I appreciate your time. Thanks so much for having me on.
GROSS: Josh Johnson's new comedy special, "Symphony," is streaming on HBO Max. After we take a short break, jazz critic Martin Johnson will review a new album by trumpeter and composer Adam O'Farrill, who's the son of musician Arturo O'Farrill. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF BOB WILBER AND KENNY DAVERN'S "ROSETTA") Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
