SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. faced questioning from lawmakers Thursday this week about vaccines, and it turned into a spectacle. Here's one exchange between Kennedy and Democratic Senator Ben Ray Lujan from New Mexico.
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BEN LUJAN: Mr. Secretary, you choose to know answers to questions with some colleagues [inaudible].
ROBERT F KENNEDY JR: I'm willing to give you the answer. I'm willing to give you the answer.
LUJAN: Maybe someone - Mr. Secretary, someone should have asked you - maybe President Trump should have asked you, are you a trustworthy person? And we should have waited for an answer then. Let's move on.
KENNEDY: I don't even know what you're talking about.
LUJAN: Mr. Secretary...
KENNEDY: You're talking gibberish.
SIMON: And we're now joined by NPR health correspondent Rob Stein. Rob, thanks so much for being with us.
ROB STEIN, BYLINE: Nice to be here, Scott.
SIMON: Hearing lasted three hours. What were the highlights?
STEIN: You know, Scott, I've covered a lot of pretty heated congressional hearings, but Kennedy's grilling was unlike anything I can remember. Everyone expected the Democrats on the committee to go after Kennedy, especially after he got his CDC director fired because she clashed with him over his vaccine policies, prompting a leadership implosion at the agency, but they were joined by some Republicans, including Senator John Barrasso of Wyoming.
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JOHN BARRASSO: Over the last 50 years, vaccines are estimated to have saved 154 million lives worldwide. I support vaccines. I'm a doctor. Vaccines work. Secretary Kennedy, in your confirmation hearings, you promised to uphold the highest standards for vaccines. Since then, I've grown deeply concerned.
STEIN: But, you know, Scott, Kennedy remained combative and defiant throughout the hearing, often, as we heard, shouting over senators as they questioned him and having angry exchanges about who's telling the truth.
SIMON: And in line with that, Rob, can you help us do a little fact-checking?
STEIN: Sure.
SIMON: For example, Secretary Kennedy says that children receive too many shots, as many as 92 by the time they're 18. Is that correct?
STEIN: Yeah, you know, that one left a lot of experts scratching their heads. So I checked with the American Academy of Pediatrics, and they told me no, it's not accurate. Kids get no more than 38 vaccine doses for childhood diseases like measles, mumps, chicken pox, you know, polio. Maybe closer to 50 if you count annual flu shots, but that's far fewer than 92. And there's plenty of evidence that those shots are very safe and highly effective at protecting kids from diseases that can be, you know, very dangerous.
SIMON: Another statement the secretary kept making was that he had done nothing to limit access to vaccines, including the COVID-19 vaccines. Is that true?
STEIN: Well, you know, nothing he's done so far has actually totally pulled any vaccines from the market, but he has made getting a COVID shot a lot harder for a lot of people. And that's because for the first time, the vaccines aren't available to anyone six months and older to just walk into a pharmacy and get. The new shots are now only approved for people who face the greatest danger of getting really sick from COVID, you know, because they're 65 years old or older or have certain other medical issues.
SIMON: How hard is it to get a COVID shot now?
STEIN: You know, for a lot of people, it's probably way harder, especially right now. In some places, people are having a really difficult time finding pharmacies that even have the vaccine, and when they do, they're sometimes being turned away because they don't meet the new rules. Sometimes they can't even get it if they do meet those new criteria, and even if they come back with a prescription. You know, that's partly because the rules vary from state to state, and a lot of doctors and pharmacies - pharmacists are confused by the new rules, too.
Now, you know, Scott, some of this will probably ease up in the coming weeks when the updated shots come into pharmacies, more plentiful around the country and people get more familiar with the new rules, and possibly after a new - and possibly after a key CDC committee issues formal recommendations for the COVID vaccines later this month. But, Scott, that committee was hand-picked by Kennedy, so no one's sure exactly what they're going to do.
SIMON: NPR health correspondent Rob Stein. Thanks so much for being with us, Rob.
STEIN: You bet, Scott.
(SOUNDBITE OF MONSTER RALLY'S "SUNNY SLOTH") Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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