STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
When standing before the crowd at St. Peter's Square yesterday, the new pope spoke in Italian and Spanish. Today, while celebrating mass, he spoke in English, addressing the cardinals who had elected him.
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POPE LEO XIV: You have called me to carry that cross and to be blessed with that mission. And I know I can rely on each and every one of you to walk with me.
INSKEEP: Where might they walk? Massimo Faggioli joins us next. He's a professor of theology and religious studies at Villanova University, which is where the new pope got his bachelor's degree in math in the 1970s. Welcome to the program, sir.
MASSIMO FAGGIOLI: Thank you. Good morning.
INSKEEP: Wow. What's it like to be in the Villanova community right now?
FAGGIOLI: Well, yesterday, it was a crazy day, and it will be crazy today, as well. Bells ringing for hours yesterday. A great excitement, to say the least.
INSKEEP: Did people anticipate that this could happen?
FAGGIOLI: Well, some people did because they had followed him for many years. They knew that Pope Francis held him in high esteem. He had promoted him to a key position in the Vatican. So it was like a wild dream, but some people had that dream, really. And so it was not totally, totally unexpected.
INSKEEP: Now, a good number of popes in my lifetime have seemed to have some political significance in the choice that was made or turned out to be. I think of Pope John Paul II, who was from Poland. He rose to the papacy in the 1970s and was there for the latter Cold War and there for the fall of the Soviet Union in Eastern Europe, the - effectively, the liberation of his country. Pope Francis was appointed just over a decade ago and came from the Global South, and that was seen as a symbol of where the Catholic Church was going and where it saw its future and where the world was going, even. And now we have Pope Leo from the United States. What do you make of that?
FAGGIOLI: I think that's exactly right. The idea of a pope coming from the U.S. was considered an impossible thing until a few days or weeks ago. The Trump effect on America, on the international global order, is one of the things that made the impossible possible with the American Pope. The United States is a great uncertainty now for the Vatican, as well. And electing a pope from the United States is one way of the Vatican to explore what this new America means for the world and for the church.
INSKEEP: Help me understand what you're telling me when you say that there's a Trump effect. Are you saying the church - the cardinals - are effectively signaling, we're concerned about the United States, we're worried about the United States, or the United States is an area of great contention now? Like, what are they saying?
FAGGIOLI: Well, 80% of the cardinals in the college were created by Pope Francis. And Pope Francis' political testament was the letter of February 10 to the U.S. bishops, where he reminded them about the danger of nationalism. The last public official Pope Francis met in his life, in his last day, was JD Vance - Vice President JD Vance. So, certainly, this is not a political statement by the college, but it contains a political message, which is much more clear than the message on other intra Catholic issues. So that's really one of the most interesting aspects because that would complicate some aspects of being pope, like relating with Russia, with China, with Israel. It will be different for an American pope than it was for an Italian pope or a pope from Poland or from Argentina.
INSKEEP: You alluded to the rise of nationalism. Now, I don't want to overstate the difference of opinion between the Roman Catholic Church and political conservatives in the United States on an issue like abortion, an issue like gay rights. The church policy is going to be much more conservative than not. But at the same time, I took note of a couple of phrases spoken yesterday. Pope Leo, in his initial speech, called the world, quote, "one common people." President Trump congratulated him in a social media post that called the selection, quote, "a great honor for our country." Do you see a difference of worldview in those two statements, one about the world as one common people, and one about our country, our nation?
FAGGIOLI: Yes, there is a difference. What we saw in these last few months in our politics in this country was the rise of a certain Catholic culture, which is more introverted, more nationally oriented. This is really part of ever-existing tension between Catholicism and the United States. The choice of the name of Leo says exactly this because Leo XIII sent a letter to U.S. bishops in 1899 warning U.S. bishops against the temptation of Americanizing too much Catholicism. So this is - it is a longstanding tension, which has become even more prominent with Donald Trump and JD Vance in the White House.
INSKEEP: Fascinating. Massimo Faggioli of Villanova University. Thanks so much for your insights.
FAGGIOLI: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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